think about it guys none of us started learning magic because we thought we could make money doing it, we got interested in magic because we all at one point saw some magic and we were hooked. not just entertained but hooked so we all wrapped ourselves around the art of magic and together we make up the magicians of the world, we are the magic community.

for all those who FREAK OUT about people who torrent magic just remember the soul purpose that we even know how use slight of hand, or gimmicks or our words to ENTERTAIN!!!!

Now on the other hand… when you want to buy a dvd online.. as far as i’m thinking, you have 2 choices – credit card or money order. Some of us don’t like credit cards because we’re too paranoid to use one online due to hackers and phishers. Or the magician is too young to have one.. or can’t get their parents to use theirs because the parent is just as well paranoid too. And a money order? That means you have to pay for the Money Order – then send it off… then wait for the company to get it – and then you have to wait for your goodies to come in the mail (Which is like christmas morning to me)

In a rare exception if a newbie just wants a video to get started in card magic or coins or whatever… think about how hard it can be if you’re limited on money – to learn magic.. There are some things you can’t find in a library.. and if they want to get one video to get started – then I don’t see it as harmful… but a bunch… yeah..

Anywho.. What you said about advertising I’ve actually been thinking about quite alot. A person goes from being unknown to thousands of people knowing him from just one trick even if it isn’t really mindblowingly good.

Thanks for the good read, Mr. Fields

Kaj

But here’s where it gets tricky. I’m really not interested in music but of course I still have an iPod and in my collection of 400 songs I haven’t bought a single one. However I don’t feel like the artist has lost anything because there is no way I would have bough it otherwise. The only band I like is Nickelback (yeh I know crucify me) and I bought their albums because it would not feel right to pirate it. I also enjoy gaming and therefore buy all my games.

If you have a genuine interest in something it is only right to purchase it.

ON the topic of magic, the principle is still the same. I did magic when I was 12 but was not extremely into it and hence (sorry to say it but…) I downloaded ellusionist videos from limewire. There was no way I was going to buy the DVDs at the time so the company had not lost anything.

Here’s where it gets interesting though and it picks up from Sean’s point, it was FREE advertising. I’ve just turned 17 and now have money; I’m also back into magic. Straight away I deleted the videos I had from before and I’m now starting fresh, with nothing. I’m buying things now, and where do I go to get it from? Ellusionist of course! I remembered the company from when I pirated but it planted the seed in my mind and I remember the quality of those tutorials. Knowing this, I have returned and now willingly buy back what I used to have. I am a paying customer now because I had seen what it was like and what I could achieve, it could be said that it was the best piece of advertising I’ve ever been exposed to.

It would be wrong for me to pirate now because I genuinely would pay money now (and do).

Bottom line: piracy can be free advertising like Sean said (as evidenced through my story) and is only detrimental if the person had the intent on buying it in the first place. If I don’t care for music nothing is lost if I pirate it and I could easily live without it. If I care for magic, which I do, and still pirate, the creator of an effect loses because he has actually lost a sale. Justin Bieber has not lost a sale from me because I certainly would not buy his ‘music’.

With all that being said, there still is no definitive answer; everyone has their own opinion. But Sean asked for my opinion and so that’s what I gave.

In summary, if you enjoy the medium, be it film, music or magic, you should be buying it. Developers, composers, illusionists etc all rely on people like us to make a living. If you had any regard for the art you would be buying it, not just because you think you should but also because you want to support the people who spend countless hours developing new ideas that push the boundaries of what people think is possible. The feel of excitement when opening a new DVD is indescribable and cannot be felt when pirating. It feels good to know you have helped someone out.

You would be doing the magic industry, which you value so much, a disservice by not supporting it.

So i download and IF I REALLY LIKE AND USE I BUY IT (sometimes i dont use but it’s awesome so buy it too).
First you enjoy the pdf’s, avi but then you see that you need your own phisycal library to fully enjoy the things you really like.
So to finish my story, we share stuff to preview what is really
good!!!! There’s a lot of crap outthere and i dont want to be stolen!!!

Sean good first post

“When it is shared for free, it kills the artist and the process.”
-results prove otherwise. Sean, in this case, is not dead and doesn’t seem to be dying. Nor have magic secrets suddenly disappeared from the market.

“It is no different than going into a restaurant and buying a nice plate of food… then sliding the food onto a buddies plate and somehow magically getting a new steak …etc”
-not really…in your example the food is actually gone from the kitchen. Digital piracy doesn’t actually remove product from the shelf, and it is proven statistically that it doesn’t decrease the number of purchasers.

“and ultimately other magicians who committed to the process…”
-not at all. Just because someone got something for free and you paid for it doesn’t reduce your own enjoyment of the product, nor the mileage you can get from it. The two are in no way connected except by emotional bias. Your experience is mutually exclusive from the act of piracy. I’m in no way claiming piracy is a victimless crime (though the jury is out on whether it is or not), but I will firmly assert that if there is a victim…it’s not you.

“Would you be upset if siphoned gas from your car? Cheated off your test? Shared your secrets? etc. ”
-yes, probably not, and yes. In the firsts case because my gas is actually gone from my tank. If you somehow made a copy of my gas then I would either not know or not care. In the second, no because the moral and ethical price is paid by the cheater, not me. My own personal test results are in no way effected, and I didn’t have to “study for two” so what difference does it *actually* make to me? In the third, absolutely. A trust has been breached. But the question here isn’t “does piracy hurt a creators feelings?” The question has never been about the art, or the artist, but about and established business proposition between the magic “industry” and the pirates. As Guest said (though I don’t agree with everything he said), this hurts the magic business, but it doesn’t effect the actual *art* of magic in the least.

“When you buy someone’s magic work, you are committing to certain rules, no? When learning martial arts, don’t you agree not to go out and beat up people? How this self regulation (and respect for one’s self and others) stopped, I do not know.”
-I agree. I’m not a pirate, but I can understand the mentality that leads to it is all. The martial arts comparison is slightly askew though because when learning magic I make the mental commitment that I won’t use my skills to rip people off, cheat at casinos, shoplift etc. I don’t make the deal that I won’t pirate files on the internet though. The two are unconnected. The “self-regulation” you speak of never really existed though. Study the history of magic and you’ll see that magicians (re: charlatans, tricksters, hucksters, card sharps, and “honest liars” alike) have been trying to steal each others tricks and handleings from the beginning. A moe accurate wuestion then would be “when will this self regulation *start*”

The internet has made it anonymous, but it certainly is far from new.