Arrrr! Pirates! Is piracy good or bad for magic?

September 28th, 2010 | Sean Fields | Filed Under General


Arrrr! Pirates! Is piracy good or bad for magic?

Is piracy bad for magic? The debate has raged on for years, and will no doubt continue regardless of what I say here. The issue of piracy has affected not just magic, but all media. Television, movies, music, porn, you name it, it is being shared ‘illegally’ between friends and peers.

The issue of piracy is much larger than just our little cottage industry, so large that I can’t claim to know all of the issues. Because of this, I will stay focused on piracy in the magic industry; however I do believe the logic I apply here can be applied to all industries.

Personally, I think the answer is yes… And no.

You see, we look at piracy in magic like it is something new, something that only came into being with the invention of the internet. This simply is not so. Magicians have been ‘illegally’ sharing magic for as long as they have been buying it. I personally know a guy who has literally THOUSANDS of pirated videos. From what I understand (I don’t speak with this guy, I just know him), he has recently digitized every video, so they are all on his PC, but prior to that, they were all dubbed video tapes and DVD’s.

You see, before the internet, magicians still copied videos, and gave said copies to friends and peers.

It seems, from my observation anyway, that those that will buy a video, will always buy a video, and those that will find a torrent, will always find a torrent.

You see, the ‘loss’ of sales that companies often complain about is not actually lost revenue; these ‘pirates’ had no intention of buying the product in the first place. If they couldn’t find a torrent, they simply didn’t get the product.

The companies cite the number of files being shared as being representative of lost revenue, when in fact they are more representative of interest in the product. If 10,000 people download a trick, you know that trick is popular.

You see, I view piracy as free advertising. If someone goes and downloads Saw, and posts in on a torrent site, and 400 other people download it, well that is 400 more people that are seeing ME, my PRODUCT, my BRAND, my WEBSITE, etc. You can’t buy that kind of marketing.

What do you think? Do you download magic? Do you buy magic? Where do you stand on piracy in magic? Holler back in the comments section.

Keep it clean guys; lets have a good fight, but come out swinging.
Represent.

-Sean


Arrrr! Pirates! Is piracy good or bad for magic?

I am pleased to be debuting my brand new blog, Illosophy here on E! I will be talking about anything and everything; NOTHING is off limits, NOTHING is taboo, NOTHING is sacred.

If there is anything you want to talk about, drop me a line at sean@ellusionist.com; I will be more than willing to tackle any subject you want.

31 comments

  1. Great view Sir. BTW I admit I usually use torrent. But you have set the tables right, if I didn’t find the one I am looking for, I won’t buy it. So it is not lost in the revenue of the ones making that movie/dvd/magic vid. Upon this fast phased technology, if someone wants their property not seen on torrent sites or internet, they need better encryption or better JUST KEEP IT for THEMSELVES. Besides you won’t see something in the net if it is not good or not worthy of spending time with it. So be proud if any of works can be found on torrent sites, It means that it is worthy of FAME.
    Besides a Good/curious magician will do anything to find out a magic that turns his head upside down, how to be done.

  2. In my opinion it’s much different for magic, than other areas like movies or mp3′s. I’m not saying that it’s right, it’s just different.
    I agree with your free advertising point view but on the other hand when a kid purchases a trick from ellusionist for example and then uploads the how-to in youtube, then it ruins the trick for all the possible spectators out there + for us the magicians who bought the trick NOT just to know who it’s done, but to actually do it because we love doing magic for whatever reason..

  3. Arrrr! Pirates! Is piracy good or bad for magic? http://bit.ly/9h0EBX

  4. RT @Ellusionist: Arrrr! Pirates! Is piracy good or bad for magic? http://bit.ly/9h0EBX

  5. RT @Ellusionist: Arrrr! Pirates! Is piracy good or bad for magic? http://bit.ly/9h0EBX

  6. I will never look for pirate magic videos, or any pirate copies of anything.

    I love to buy magic dvds and i love to collect them. and are very happy to pay for them, and very proud of what i have bought from E and other stores.

  7. I dl from torrents and If I like what I see I will buy the product. I have been burned by magic tricks that really suck before, so now I just DL first buy later.

  8. I think the pirates inspire the great magicians to do some impressive magics. Look, i am from Brazil, and before MR M, there was no magic culture here. there was claws doing magic at partys, boring TV shows with magic. After that, there was David Blane and Chriss angel who appeared in media with new way of magic. The way tha anyone can do a trick with a simple deck of cards. Than, after it, the pirate DVD came arround. Because of that, there is a few bad magicians here who just know the secret, but there is no glamour.

    I think it´s ordinary. To share illegally anything is ordinary. The only way to break it is to improve culture, and in our case is to do our best shows. I know a lot of secrets, but see guys like Pontha de Smith presenting it is awesome.

    So if you want to break the pirates, just do great presentations, and show them that the secrets is not all of doing magic.

    (sorry…poor poor english language. I got to improve it)

  9. I agree with Arrdi. I have hundreds of effects and DVDs I’ve bought over the years, and I count a large number of them as crap. Either the descriptions in the catalog or website were misleading, or the video was edited, or it just didn’t fit my style of performing, but whatever it was it just sits there laughing at me. With that case, I have downloaded a lot of magic vids and pdfs in recent years and have saved myself a lot of money that would have been wasted on overpriced junk. If I see a pdf or trick I like, I visit the website and buy the original to support the magician. If I don’t like the effect, but can see the magician had promise, I’ll buy something else they’ve put together.

    The music industry unintentionally promoted piracy by jacking the prices of CDs up to the point where it was ridiculous. Then Apple brought out ITunes and took the music to a reasonable price. If magicians aren’t careful they’ll outprice the market as well. I have no problem paying $15 – $20 for a single-trick DVD if the effect is worth it, but now some are going for over $30 and that’s just too much of an investment for me to make in something that could be crippled by false advertising and edited videos.

  10. I agree with a lot of what Sean has said here. Commonly (and I speak from the point of view of someone involved in music here) it is seen as “theft” when someone downloads a file illegally. However, theft is defined as the taking of something that isn’t yours by right.

    Consider that if I steal your car, your car is gone. If I steal your idea and profit from it, I have taken your potential profits by providing competition in the market place based on your intellectual property. In both siutations something that should be in your pocket is not. if I take a file however, you still have the original. I haven’t taken anything from you.

    The only time this becomes theft is as Sean said…if I would have purchased it and now have not because I obtained it illegally. Chances are I would not have.

    I disagree with the positng of things on YouTube. It’s too readily available. There’s no hoopps to jump through. I know people who download illegally (songs and movies that is) all the time…but look at me blankly and say “wtf is a torrent?” if the topic comes up. Therefore I am left to surmise that anyone really curious about how a trick is done (we’ve all had these spectators) just is not going to track down the answer. The closest he might come is looking on youtube and half (or more) of those YouTube hacks are just that…hacks. They do it wrong, they flop the moves. It really isn’t anymore of an exposure than if I do the trick poorly at the pub. Plus, *more than 3/4 of the time the exposure isn’t even correct*.

    Given that, the question that begs to be asked is this: are we discussing the harm to the “magic industry” (guffaw, no offence), the harm perceived to be done to those creators that some (again, no offense…I have nothing but respect) have come to idolize and and emulate and be overly defensive of, or the harm to the art of magic itself through exposure.

    If the answer is a)…well Sean said it best already. I can’t really be clearer than him. If it is b)…well, fanboys will be fanboys and haters will hate. End of the day I have mad respect for Sean (just to use him as an example because, well, it’s his blog) and wouldn’t want anything to harm his career; however I have never pictured his career as being “selling DVDs teaching tricks”. That’s a facet, not the stone. Likewise for other performers and creators. If the answer is c)…anyone who goese to those lengths just to see how a trick is done to sate their curiousity is probably now going to buy a deck of sticky old Caravans from the 7-11 and thus another magician is born. I can’t see anything wrong with that.

    Long winded, I know…but it’s a topic I feel passionate about. Magic saved me from a dark place, so I get invovled in the discussion whenever I can.

  11. I believe piracy in magic isn’t bad, though I do know some magicians need some sort of income from the dvd’s and tricks they release. The magic community needs to be close and open to each other, while hiding all tricks from lay people. This way the magic spreads and magical opportunity for potential spectators raises.

    As long as a magician is learning a trick to mystify spectators, piracy is acceptable. Just don’t use something as public as Youtube! Find a magic forum or go to your local magic community.

  12. This is what i do with a lot of things, not just magic. If i really like it i buy it right away. I have bought many DVDs and magic tricks that way. If i see a trailer for a trick and i am skeptical about it i will probably torrent it so see if it is even practical for me to do at all. If I download it and enjoy it then i will surely buy it.

    What do you think about this?

  13. So Sean, are you saying that you have no problem with magicians illegally downloading your videos?

  14. Honestly, I have never bought a dvd because simply, I don’t have the money. Does this mean I can’t learn magic? My d/ling these dvd’s isn’t costing the magicians putting them out a sale, cause there is no way i would buy them. (although once i’m out of college and have a real job i do plan on purchasing from then on)

    As for youtube, I agree that it is harmful, when they reveal a magicians personal trick. When it is some trick that is only taught on 1 dvd because that person invented it (or revolutionized it) then yes, it shouldn’t be allowed. But in my opinion, the general things like the classic pass or double lift definitely should be on youtube. Youtube is probably the best source for young magicians, (i know it was for me) and I learned a lot of the basic moves from it.

  15. Ridwaan Adam Umaduth on:

    Personally i purchase dvd’s as opposed to pirating. Im an engineer by day and i know that i get pissed if people were to use my inventions without paying for them. not because of the money but really coz you need to pay homage. Even if you do download something, if you like what you see then pay for the damned thing. as for those twits who decide to sum up an entire training dvd into a 2 minute tutorial on youtube, they should be publicly executed for all to see. they are not doing it for their love of magic but rather their love for themselves. they want their few minutes of fame.

    @ Eric,
    I sympathise with you i really do. I discovered my love for magic when i was in school and well never had money to purchase anything. even when i went to university i still couldnt afford much. however. i did not download nor did i go to youtube and get the “tutorials”. i waited… and waited… and qualified… started earning and purchased. its only fair.

    finally all i can say is that a true lover of magic in my opinion does not even go to you tube to learn. you shouldnt be there at all. you tube revealers dont teach magic, they teach bastardized tricks.

    oh and not being able to afford the magic videos is no excuse for you to be going to youtube and learning. there are tons of books that are available at the local libraries on magic. While videos tend to be better, you can actually learn basic utility moves from books and then use youtube to watch PERFORMANCES to better understand how it should look when performed. once you have the basics down you could start doing a fair bit of magic. in fact you could learn enough for a 15min to half hour routine from there. thats when you go out and perform… earn some $$$ and slowly start building your collection of original dvd’s.

    final verdict =.> Piracy in magic = evil and producing bad magicians.

  16. well ok i once looked up the tutorial for triumph only cuz i REALLY wanted to know how to do it. i wish i just got ninja 2… but other than that no i hate it when people reveal the best tricks cuz it spoilz the fun :(

  17. Ellusionist brings Illosopher on board: Sean Fields will shake up the social scene | Online Magic News – Ellusionist Street Magic Blog on:

    [...] his first blog post is lighting up our comments. So read. Take the shot, then fire back. This is illosophy [...]

  18. I’d like to see more quality gimmicks being invented since they can’t be pirated.

    It seems like most gimmicks these days can be made for under $5 but are selling for $40+ (eg. WOW by Masuda –> search ebay for “card sleeve illusion”) and that a lot of people are disappointed when they receive their tricks in the mail.

  19. I respect your positive outlook on things. However, the answer is simply, yes. Artists put tons of time and money to market and sale a product. When it is shared for free, it kills the artist and the process. It is no different than going into a restaurant and buying a nice plate of food… then sliding the food onto a buddies plate and somehow magically getting a new steak from the cook without the cook or company being paid a cent… then repeating this again and again. Worse, are the many sites that allow people that have taken material from artists without permission and they make money off a pay per clicks, etc. It’s a real shame that it is not a easy answer. It is also incorrect that people take the time to download these videos without any desire to purchase them if they could not get them illegally for free. Reading these posts here even prove it. I have a hard time believing that someone would download a torrent THEN buy it if they liked it. No way. They already got the content, secrets, etc and have screwed the producers, the artist… and ultimately other magicians who committed to the process… who have either been buying a book, studying, mentoring, buying a DVD, etc. The free handouts, illegal copies then immediate resales, torrents, etc are harmful.
    Would you be upset if siphoned gas from your car? Cheated off your test? Shared your secrets? etc.

    Sharing knowledge is one thing… sharing (COPYING and DISTRIBUTING) someone’s work is LAME. When you buy someone’s magic work, you are committing to certain rules, no? When learning martial arts, don’t you agree not to go out and beat up people? How this self regulation (and respect for one’s self and others) stopped, I do not know.

  20. This is a bullsh1t topic…..if u want to say that u might loose ur money then say it….I understand it might hurt the magic industry….but y the

    hell u wanna sell ur secret magic tricks if ur paranoid about it. Piracy won’t have any effect on magic, but on making money is more like it.

    So piracy is nothing for magic,but for making money….yes…. and i understand if ur talking about money here.

    About magic for me is great when u don’t know the secret 4 it…knowing how to do it spoils ur feeling for magic….like knowing the Dav1d Bla1ne street levitation trick..ridiculous when u know

    it..but so amazing when u don’t….even i know the secret, i won’t be performing….I just like to know……

  21. spoken as a typical spoiled person that sees no cause and effect and takes no responsibility. selfish, short minded.. it goes WAY beyond money dude. there is no principles, dedication, support, respect… and certainly very little value on things or others around you. it’s all about themselves. really sad stuff. you’re right that this is a bullshit topic.

  22. Just to play devil’s advocate here:

    “When it is shared for free, it kills the artist and the process.”
    -results prove otherwise. Sean, in this case, is not dead and doesn’t seem to be dying. Nor have magic secrets suddenly disappeared from the market.

    “It is no different than going into a restaurant and buying a nice plate of food… then sliding the food onto a buddies plate and somehow magically getting a new steak …etc”
    -not really…in your example the food is actually gone from the kitchen. Digital piracy doesn’t actually remove product from the shelf, and it is proven statistically that it doesn’t decrease the number of purchasers.

    “and ultimately other magicians who committed to the process…”
    -not at all. Just because someone got something for free and you paid for it doesn’t reduce your own enjoyment of the product, nor the mileage you can get from it. The two are in no way connected except by emotional bias. Your experience is mutually exclusive from the act of piracy. I’m in no way claiming piracy is a victimless crime (though the jury is out on whether it is or not), but I will firmly assert that if there is a victim…it’s not you.

    “Would you be upset if siphoned gas from your car? Cheated off your test? Shared your secrets? etc. ”
    -yes, probably not, and yes. In the firsts case because my gas is actually gone from my tank. If you somehow made a copy of my gas then I would either not know or not care. In the second, no because the moral and ethical price is paid by the cheater, not me. My own personal test results are in no way effected, and I didn’t have to “study for two” so what difference does it *actually* make to me? In the third, absolutely. A trust has been breached. But the question here isn’t “does piracy hurt a creators feelings?” The question has never been about the art, or the artist, but about and established business proposition between the magic “industry” and the pirates. As Guest said (though I don’t agree with everything he said), this hurts the magic business, but it doesn’t effect the actual *art* of magic in the least.

    “When you buy someone’s magic work, you are committing to certain rules, no? When learning martial arts, don’t you agree not to go out and beat up people? How this self regulation (and respect for one’s self and others) stopped, I do not know.”
    -I agree. I’m not a pirate, but I can understand the mentality that leads to it is all. The martial arts comparison is slightly askew though because when learning magic I make the mental commitment that I won’t use my skills to rip people off, cheat at casinos, shoplift etc. I don’t make the deal that I won’t pirate files on the internet though. The two are unconnected. The “self-regulation” you speak of never really existed though. Study the history of magic and you’ll see that magicians (re: charlatans, tricksters, hucksters, card sharps, and “honest liars” alike) have been trying to steal each others tricks and handleings from the beginning. A moe accurate wuestion then would be “when will this self regulation *start*”

    The internet has made it anonymous, but it certainly is far from new.

  23. C’mon guys piracy doesn’t make any bad to industry.
    Like some guys over here i dowload stuff and share some. Why?
    The reason behind this is the FAULT of greedy people! People advertise magic as it was the BEST OF THE BEST, HOLY GRAIL, THE ULTIMATE and when receiving it IT SUCKS!
    YES it SUCKS – i know that people normally say:
    “ah this could be garbage to you but you are not seeing the thing!”
    Oh yeah? Why don’t you use it? It’s easy to talk – lot of theory minds and people who just spend their lifes in forums.

    So i download and IF I REALLY LIKE AND USE I BUY IT (sometimes i dont use but it’s awesome so buy it too).
    First you enjoy the pdf’s, avi but then you see that you need your own phisycal library to fully enjoy the things you really like.
    So to finish my story, we share stuff to preview what is really
    good!!!! There’s a lot of crap outthere and i dont want to be stolen!!!

    Sean good first post :)

  24. Great topic Sean! It’s a really difficult one to answer though and it varies for different industries. You made a good point about there being no loss in revenue if the person was not going to buy it if they could not find a download though.

    But here’s where it gets tricky. I’m really not interested in music but of course I still have an iPod and in my collection of 400 songs I haven’t bought a single one. However I don’t feel like the artist has lost anything because there is no way I would have bough it otherwise. The only band I like is Nickelback (yeh I know crucify me) and I bought their albums because it would not feel right to pirate it. I also enjoy gaming and therefore buy all my games.

    If you have a genuine interest in something it is only right to purchase it.

    ON the topic of magic, the principle is still the same. I did magic when I was 12 but was not extremely into it and hence (sorry to say it but…) I downloaded ellusionist videos from limewire. There was no way I was going to buy the DVDs at the time so the company had not lost anything.

    Here’s where it gets interesting though and it picks up from Sean’s point, it was FREE advertising. I’ve just turned 17 and now have money; I’m also back into magic. Straight away I deleted the videos I had from before and I’m now starting fresh, with nothing. I’m buying things now, and where do I go to get it from? Ellusionist of course! I remembered the company from when I pirated but it planted the seed in my mind and I remember the quality of those tutorials. Knowing this, I have returned and now willingly buy back what I used to have. I am a paying customer now because I had seen what it was like and what I could achieve, it could be said that it was the best piece of advertising I’ve ever been exposed to.

    It would be wrong for me to pirate now because I genuinely would pay money now (and do).

    Bottom line: piracy can be free advertising like Sean said (as evidenced through my story) and is only detrimental if the person had the intent on buying it in the first place. If I don’t care for music nothing is lost if I pirate it and I could easily live without it. If I care for magic, which I do, and still pirate, the creator of an effect loses because he has actually lost a sale. Justin Bieber has not lost a sale from me because I certainly would not buy his ‘music’.

    With all that being said, there still is no definitive answer; everyone has their own opinion. But Sean asked for my opinion and so that’s what I gave.

    In summary, if you enjoy the medium, be it film, music or magic, you should be buying it. Developers, composers, illusionists etc all rely on people like us to make a living. If you had any regard for the art you would be buying it, not just because you think you should but also because you want to support the people who spend countless hours developing new ideas that push the boundaries of what people think is possible. The feel of excitement when opening a new DVD is indescribable and cannot be felt when pirating. It feels good to know you have helped someone out.

    You would be doing the magic industry, which you value so much, a disservice by not supporting it.

  25. I torrent magic that dosen’t have a gimmick. That said, DVDs without gimmicks are cheaper. If I had a steady paycheck then I would buy DVDs all the time, but I just don’t have the money. So, why don’t I wait till I get money, because it is so much faster to torrent. No, it is not hurting magic nor helping it. Non-magicians aren’t downloading it to find out secrets to destroy the magic industry, it is staying inside the dedicated circle. And, at the moment, I am planning on making a pretty big purchase at another website, sadly E didn’t have everything I wanted, but I am buying a great deal of magic, some things I have already torrented. I feel that torrenting keeps magic makers on their toes. Truly, only preteen magicians “over-torrent” since they cannot always get the needed money to buy. One of my theories is that it is okay to torrent while learning and buy when you are making money off the effect. Because I don’t want to pay for an effect I may or may not use.

  26. This was a nice read. I quite sure that almost everyone has tried Piracy in some way. Would it be Torrent, FTP, filesharing site or whatever. I’ve tried it, sure. But I do of course also spend money on magic (and other) things.
    What I’m guessing is a pain in the arse (at least for me) is the postal service. Just a few days ago I got a package I had ordered from T11 which was just 4 decks of cards. When I got the package (letter) they had put 160% in import on it. It get’s really expensive for someone like me when I have to get it sent from the US all over to EU. Sometimes this happens and sometimes I’ve gotten lucky and they haven’t charged me for imports.
    So usually I try not to order much that is on a DVD an has to be shipped but instead those online downloads that are sold.

    Anywho.. What you said about advertising I’ve actually been thinking about quite alot. A person goes from being unknown to thousands of people knowing him from just one trick even if it isn’t really mindblowingly good.

    Thanks for the good read, Mr. Fields

    Kaj

  27. Ok.. as much as this is a touchy subject..
    Point 1: When magic is downloaded it becomes discouraging to magicians who are trying to make a decent living selling their ideas – I mean, that’s someones bread and butter! And although I agree that it’s wrong… you have to admit that there ARE some magicians out there (And scammers).. that try to sell others crap tricks! ” For example the guy who tried to duplicate Wayne Houchins Sinful… He put a video on ebay for 10.00 a download”
    Most magicians out there work extremely hard to make a well put together dvd of their hard-worked ideas. But there are those out there that take a simple and sometimes stupid idea, and they sell it like it’s supposed to be a reputation maker. For the past 7 years i’ve seen various sites online where some guy took a camera out and got some decent reactions to crap tricks, and then tried to sell homemade dvds to new magicians… weeks later – the site is out of business.
    The point i’m getting at is that there are some really good magic dvds out there that deserve a ton of respect.. and should be paid for – for the hard work that the magician put into it.
    And then there are crap videos out there, that have crap quality… less than impressive reactions, not enough explanation, that are strictly designed by con artists to make a quick dollar!
    That is where downloading shouldn’t make a difference.. because it’s not worth the time to buy it. But then and again… videos like that aren’t really searched for online so I guess it’s halfway a lost cause.

    Now on the other hand… when you want to buy a dvd online.. as far as i’m thinking, you have 2 choices – credit card or money order. Some of us don’t like credit cards because we’re too paranoid to use one online due to hackers and phishers. Or the magician is too young to have one.. or can’t get their parents to use theirs because the parent is just as well paranoid too. And a money order? That means you have to pay for the Money Order – then send it off… then wait for the company to get it – and then you have to wait for your goodies to come in the mail (Which is like christmas morning to me)

    In a rare exception if a newbie just wants a video to get started in card magic or coins or whatever… think about how hard it can be if you’re limited on money – to learn magic.. There are some things you can’t find in a library.. and if they want to get one video to get started – then I don’t see it as harmful… but a bunch… yeah..

  28. So wrong or right in the end is a moot point, I pirate the bad and buy the good when I see it. Lets take the amount of of rehashed stuff coming out all the time. I see the same effects with new presentation. I see the elite magician getting ripped off on DVD deals. It is all based on upbringing and the honesty of people. Yes I have seen some youtube videos that pissed me off. I also seen the pass being taught on a beginning DVD. I think I was more angry at the latter. It is a sign of respect not to push a product on the masses to gain a few bucks. Mindfreak products at Walmart? I laughed when I saw this. The point being if we don’t respect the art as an art form, It can be exploited like anything else. Most of the sponge videos can be linked to Mark Wilson’s book. Get your hands on the Tarbell course to really see how much is copied. I know everyone has to make a buck but at least do it without ripping off the truly creative people. Most gems have their products on a site that has less hype than the mainstream. You also wont find torrents to them cause it is gold. We wont give them up to the masses. If you push monkey tricks than more monkeys will learn them. If you have something truly amazing people won’t share mainstream.

  29. I haven’t read all of these comments, so there’s a good chance that my situation has been covered, but I do pirate magic and when I like it, I buy it to “justify” the pirating. Usually, I pirate to see the method, and if the method isn’t “simple” – or generally has too much preparation, behind-the-scenes work, etc. – I wouldn’t have liked the product if I bought it and would have been unsatisfied spending my money. If I don’t like it, I’ll just delete the files and forget about the product. If I pirate something – at least in regard to magic – I DO have the intention of buying it and the method is what convinces me to buy it or not. I don’t like playing guessing games with magic that I may not end up liking, because a lot of it is expensive regardless of method.

  30. It is in reality a nice and useful piece of info. I’m satisfied that you shared this useful info with us. Please stay us informed like this. Thanks for sharing.

  31. i will be brutaly honest i found this thread while trying to find a good torrent to download. let e be honest again, i torrent magic for one reason, Im a Magician with not alot of money. and quite frankly i wont use any site but E. now i ust say E does charge a pretty penny for EVERYTHING on the site. but people pay those prices so i guess we wont be seeing those change anytime soon. but that is why i torrent magic, not because i dont want to pay but because i cant, and im not going to let that hinder my learning. i strive to learn, perform and entertain! NOT MAKE MONEY!!! i use magic for its intended purpose ENTERTAINMENT, I AM AN ENTERTAINER NOT A BUISNESS MAN.

    think about it guys none of us started learning magic because we thought we could make money doing it, we got interested in magic because we all at one point saw some magic and we were hooked. not just entertained but hooked so we all wrapped ourselves around the art of magic and together we make up the magicians of the world, we are the magic community.

    for all those who FREAK OUT about people who torrent magic just remember the soul purpose that we even know how use slight of hand, or gimmicks or our words to ENTERTAIN!!!!